Page name: Redesigning Elfpack [Logged in view] [RSS]
2013-04-04 21:17:36
Last author: kittykittykitty
Owner: Stephen
# of watchers: 18
D20: 9
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A joint effort between the Council and members
to make Elfpack more enjoyable for everyone.

This page is designed with the intention of making it so that we as a community can come together and brainstorm ideas on how to make Elfpack a better community, stop the memberbase from declining, and get the member count back on the incline.

We of the Council have been trying various ideas, but quite frankly they aren't working well. We're not sure what to do, and we need help from the members, from you.

Post your ideas and comments in the comment box, and we can discuss them and see what everyone thinks, and what we can and cannot do.

What we're looking for:
- Contest ideas to use
- Contest ideas to not use
- Features on site (like Trivia, or Pet Store) we should promote
- Features on site we should put less effort into, or remove
- Ideas for new feature on site
- A site "theme" -- something unique about Elfpack we can advertise, to draw more members.
- Rewards members are interested in from the Council
- Other such like things

What we probably can't do:
- Completely change the site design or layout
   - Small changes should be possible however.
- Large scale changes [Hedda] would personally need to do.

What we can't do, and don't want:
- Change the site name.
- We don't want "Fire/kick/ban this person for xxx-reason." If you really think someone is making trouble, message [Stephen] personally.

For suggestions and comments regarding the changing of the graphics, layout and colors of Elfpack, please visit the pages .css and Style Requests. Due to the huge amount of comments about Stylesheets, we've created pages for those discussions so we can better focus general ideas here, thank you!

1137) We have asked what you would like, and you said an Elfpack app, so what app would you like to have? (Administrator is private forum number -36)

Number of voters: 35

Show content

1132) Which of these interests you? Check all that apply! (Also, please suggest more in the comments!) (Administrator: [Stephen])

Number of voters: 35

Username (or number or email):


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2013-02-20 [Stephen]: Actually, [Cerulean Sins] handles a lot of off-site type of work, such as promoting Elfpack via Facebook, and she tends to create and host most of our official contests. (;

I would love for members to pop up on this page and just blurt out ideas for improving things or changing them, even if they think it's silly. There's really no harm in trying, overall.

2013-02-20 [Cerulean Sins]: [Schlachter] Hahaaha! I am lazy! Ask anyone on my Facebook friends or anyone on here that knows me! :-)

[Stephen] Oh yeah! I just remembered! I'm going to be bring our twitter account back to life. I'll be tweeting via my phone cause it will make it much easier for me:-)

2013-02-20 [Stephen]: Awesome to hear that. :D

2013-02-20 [Cerulean Sins]: Cause I remember that we go an increase in new members from the twitter account

2013-02-20 [Schlachter]: [Stephen] Yes, I thought about it for a second & realized that in fact she does do so many things...
Including being herself XD

As long as the comments are not negative & somehow (I don't care how really) increase productivity or at least do not alter it.

lol kids these days & their Twitters & Facebooks & Myspaces... Why back in the day, all we had were black & orange terminals. We had to post on actual channels. Likes were usually done through phone calls where you actually called up the person & talked to them. Or you met the at lunch hour. Don't you believe it...

We can track joiners(?) in a database, would this be useful for us?

2013-02-20 [Stephen]: Trackers may be useful, although people tend to frown upon being tracked. :P

Texts > phone calls

2013-02-20 [Deg]: I don't like being tracked! You can't make me a numbah. :D Just kidding. I wouldn't want the specific wikis and stuff I go on tracked or anything, but if there was a way to just track general...attendance? Across the site. Does that make sense?

2013-02-20 [Stephen]: I think there is. :3

2013-02-20 [sammie h!]: There is

Hits last minute: 20

2013-02-20 [Schlachter]: [Stephen] The tracker would be unnoticeable actually. They would not be able to find out they were being tracked under even irregular circumstances.

[Deg] Well, it's a very high level type of tracking...

[sammie h!] That doesn't give us region info or the profile for example. We could track those things...
Also new member sign up.

2013-02-20 [Deg]: Oh! Well then...good.

2013-02-20 [Schlachter]: Everyone is being tracked via log files on [Hedda]'s server technically anyways. Deal is, we can also get access to that info.

2013-02-20 [sammie h!]: Do it lol. :)

2013-02-20 [Schlachter]: @&$*^(^@(^(*!)(!#*(!#&*&$*&$*(

I'll put it on the to-do list... when are we getting reinforcements?

2013-02-20 [sammie h!]: Reinforcements, you mean more people to help? :)

2013-02-20 [Schlachter]: No, I mean reinforcements lol
people is such a lame name for them
truppen = reinforcements?

2013-02-20 [sammie h!]: Well we need to find some good artists and people that are good at .css x

2013-02-20 [Schlachter]: I have no hope in that we will find CSS people... but I do hope to train them. CSS is a walk in the park once you get the hang of it.

The artists though I NEED. I cannot do without artists. We only have [Deg] so far... we NEED an army. Or the progress will be very very slow. It will be months before we get anything really fancy done.

2013-02-20 [GlassCasket]: Engage!

2013-02-20 [Schlachter]: Killswitch?

2013-02-20 [Commandaaah]: KILLSWITCH ENGAGE! 8D

2013-02-20 [Deg]: 8D THIS IS, MY LAST, SERENAAAAAAAAAAADE...ahem. Back to business, everyone!

2013-02-20 [Commandaaah]: YES, CONTINUE!

2013-02-20 [GlassCasket]: EY! This isn't the word association corner

2013-02-20 [Commandaaah]: I love that game!

2013-02-20 [Stephen]: I'll bug more artists to help.

Zach, train me in CSS when we're both not busy. IE: never. ;;

New member signup is easy to track. They need to apply, and then I need to accept them. xD

2013-02-21 [sammie h!]: I think there should be an automatic accept thing on here as people may apply and never come on again as they forget about applying in the first place.

Can the logo be put up now, I'm exccited to see what it looks like. :)

2013-02-21 [GlassCasket]: If there is an automatic accepting thing then people can just make a buttload of fake accounts or bots and start spamming the piss out of our current members however. I think the app system is ok for now.

2013-02-21 [sammie h!]: Not if we have that code thing to stop bots.

And not if we have one pair email. :)

2013-02-21 [Stephen]: No, the logo would be hacked if it was put up now. :P

Applying: You need to put it a working email for an application to be accepted, at which point you're emailed. I normally accept applications same-day, so it's not likely someone would forget same day.

We didn't use to have forced applications, but banned members (like your fiancee :P) side-stepped bans so I had Hedda put in required application for all IP's. :3

Bot prevention is useless. They bypass it, and it annoys users. No one wins. :P

2013-02-21 [sammie h!]: Yeah I see your point, ha ha, fiance for a guy is one e not two lol.

How would the logo be hacked if we put it up now?

2013-02-21 [Schlachter]: [GlassCasket] is right... & CAPTCHA codes can be bypassed, I've written such scripts before. They just keep out script kiddies is what. No automatic joining is on my vote. It is a personable site where the member base is a community, not a Facebook privacy invading network whore-house XD
I didn't supply my e-mail to Elfpack. It shouldn't need it except to verify a user, there is a mailing system here already. I don't like your philosophy of mass communications [sammie h!]... although I agree it is somewhat necessary in certain scenarios, but that is ONLY certain scenarios.

Stephen calls the dice on who puts what & how as HIS neck is on the line for this. I'm not leaking any technical information anymore on any of my work on Elfpack anymore unless [Stephen] gives me a green light to do so. For now, CSS is the only thing on that list. EPND is still a separate project so, that I have no problem divulging info for.

Also, [Stephen], when they join, you don't really get location information & Internet Service Provider/Organization information & what link referred them to Elfpack for example so we can see how effective advertisement really is (don't get excited yet Sammie XD)

2013-02-21 [sammie h!]: lol I won't. :)

2013-02-22 [Stephen]: Zach, the email is only needed to verify a user, there's no way to email a member of Elfpack unless you're a high level Admin (Priv 1-14) or they have their email set to public past that.

I haven't had a chance to talk to Hedda yet, sadly. He and I live on opposite sides of the world and we're both quite busy.

I like the idea of that tracking, Zach. We can use it to focus our efforts.

2013-02-22 [sammie h!]: Yeah. :)

2013-02-22 [Schlachter]: ^
She's just waiting for it... look at that XD

2013-02-23 [sammie h!]: Lol, well it would be good to set like a week to get everything sorted, I'm dying to see what people think to our new look. :D

2013-02-23 [Schlachter]: Just a while longer. I would like to tweak things a little bit more.

2013-02-23 [sammie h!]: Ok x

2013-03-02 [Schlachter]: THIS:
Has GOT to change...

2013-03-02 [Deg]: Wow. Jeez, like...holy hell. I agree.

2013-03-04 [kittykittykitty]: I kinda like the first verse of the anthem. That flag definitely needs a facelift (or a flamethrower).

2013-03-04 [Schlachter]: Hmmm... a flamethrower you say? You're on to something... I LIKE the way you think!

2013-03-04 [Stephen]: Yeah, the flag is pretty outdated..

2013-03-04 [Stephen]: I like the anthem, but it's sorta cybering-based, and that's a theme that was dropped in Elfpack when FAKE was released.

2013-03-04 [Schlachter]: THANK GOD!!!
Stephen... wait what? You what?? the anthem? I did NOT read that right... I did not read that right o.0'


No, I didn't read that at all...

I am sure that comment will somehow magically fix itself & confirm that I never read that...




2013-03-04 [sammie h!]: ??..??

2013-03-05 [kittykittykitty]: Didn't you know? Stephen was the inspiration for the anthem; he was EP's cyber god back in 2006. We had to create fake just to get his fangirls to stop flaunting themselves on official pages for his attention.

2013-03-05 [Schlachter]: ...


Ha ha Sarah... ha ha... it says the authors of the anthem are [Fanta Boi] & [Fanta gurl] who are probably the same person -- I need to do some intel on those two; obviously not who they pretend to be.

Stephen was so not a cyber god...
That was a year before I joined... heh... the place was leaking cybersex... but he wasn't the warden then... it was [Sunrose] or... [Ihsahn]... o.O'


2013-03-05 [sammie h!]: Just thought of something, how about on the relations bit, put a date there from when you became friends with that person? :)

2013-03-05 [Schlachter]: That would be a bit tricky... but it can be done. Not sure how much people would use it though...

2013-03-05 [sammie h!]: But it could be automatic. :)

2013-03-05 [Schlachter]: That was the whole idea... :)

2013-03-05 [sammie h!]: lol, blonde, brunette mum moment Whatever that is

2013-03-05 [Schlachter]: * paints hair red *
I'm immune to those moments... see??

2013-03-05 [sammie h!]: Ha Ha but now your a ginga lol

2013-03-05 [sammie h!]: An Elfpack App for Smartphones is winning, yipee. :)

2013-03-05 [Schlachter]: It's not funny... I still have a soul... I just... :'(
I can't prove it

2013-03-05 [sammie h!]: lol, solelessPerson

2013-03-05 [Schlachter]: Yes, it looks like that App will have to get done. Apple charges 150$/year for the developer fee & apparently is very picky about code. This is going to end up being political I'm sure, but we should round up the council & talk about how to proceed with this, there are a few solutions.
For android, the fee is much less & the requirements are almost non-existent. But who wants it on android I wonder? Who here is a google-slave? Who is an Apple-slave XD? We need another poll I guess...

2013-03-05 [Schlachter]: I don't get it...? A sole is a fish??

2013-03-05 [sammie h!]: Lol oh yeah.

Regarding the app, I will set up a forum for the Council and Guards so we can discuss this privately

2013-03-06 [Schlachter]: I still don't get it XD

Sounds good.

2013-03-06 [sammie h!]: Forum is done. :)

2013-03-06 [kittykittykitty]: Maybe she's talking about shoes. Gingers aren't allowed shoes?:(

2013-03-06 [sammie h!]: are they? :)

2013-03-06 [Schlachter]: Wait... soles are shoes???
I'm not giving up my shoes!!!

2013-03-06 [sammie h!]: i wonder if a sole has a soul or if a soul has a sole

2013-03-06 [Schlachter]: Verdammt! I'm out of this discussion... I don't want to be a ginger anymore! Better off with blonde-brunette moments then to be philosophically categorized as without shoes or consciousness...

2013-03-06 [sammie h!]: lol, yes, I win again. :)

2013-03-06 [Schlachter]: "I'll get you next time, Gadget Sammie... next time!"

2013-03-06 [sammie h!]: lol. :)

2013-03-13 [Stephen]: <3 Android

2013-03-13 [Schlachter]: Completely off topic Stephen... you're supposed to be sick?
It seems rather unanimous that EVERYONE wants an Elfpack App. Honestly, I would prefer dealing with Android, but I doubt any polls will favor it. How long are we running this poll for?

2013-03-22 [djxmonster]: *yawn*
I am VERY late to this party...

2013-03-22 [Deg]: Party ain't over.

2013-03-22 [Schlachter]: Where is the party? I want in!

2013-04-01 [Stephen]: I like parties. (:

I'll probably run the poll until a new one is suggested to replace it. :3

2013-04-01 [Schlachter]: ... okay...
What do we decide about this App then? Clearly people want it?

2013-04-01 [sammie h!]: It is clear that people want the app so how about this for a Poll:

What app world would you like this for:


2013-04-02 [GlassCasket]: Apple can lick my left testicle :P Android fer meeeee :D Also can i get back on the council? Just cuz i'm awesome? :P

2013-04-02 [sammie h!]: [GlassCasket], I would take you under my wing for the Elfpack awards and put you as the Deputy boss but you said a while ago that you didn't want to do anything that was to do do with me or what I run lol.

Also, here is a suggestion I was told to ask, why don't we put a Transgender option on the sex of a member option?

2013-04-02 [Stephen]: Most transgender people dislike actually being referred to as transgender. :P

2013-04-02 [kittykittykitty]: Yeah that sort of defeats the purpose of becoming another gender.

2013-04-02 [sammie h!]: I see your point, I just got asked this by [SusieQ] x

2013-04-03 [GlassCasket]: Nope :P

2013-04-04 [Schlachter]: [sammie h!] please make the poll & we will wait for [Stephen] to somehow promote or click on the right places for it to be used.

You know... you all are a pretty WEIRD bunch... & this is coming from a FREAK. So, I don't know what your pride is in all this, but... you should keep it up!

2013-04-04 [sammie h!]: "I was like baby baby baby ohhhk"

2013-04-04 [GlassCasket]: Crackers?

2013-04-05 [Schlachter]: [sammie h!]: I never heard any of his songs, I would be dead. Nice try.
[GlassCasket]: eat them?

2013-04-05 [watts]: are is this asking to vote on a smart phone App?

2013-04-05 [sammie h!]: Yes it is [watts] why whatts, so what app would you like whatts lol. :)

2013-04-05 [watts]: im not too active here, im more active on fake, i was just curious as to what it was

2013-04-05 [Schlachter]: Looks like Android is going to get priority... I will start developing after 20 votes.

2013-04-06 [Stephen]: <3 Droid.

2013-04-06 [sammie h!]: We know you are lol. :)

2013-04-07 [Schlachter]: As long as the polls don't get rigged...

Who am I kidding? I do prefer to code for Android... :/

2013-04-07 [GlassCasket]: *turns cyborg*

2013-04-07 [sammie h!]: 2 more votes needed, lol, but android will win anyway. :P

2013-04-08 [Stephen]: We're at 20. :D

2013-04-08 [kittykittykitty]: [Schlachter] did you mean 20 votes total, or 20 for a specific one?

2013-04-08 [sammie h!]: 20 votes in total. :)

2013-04-08 [Schlachter]: Scheisse!!! :O Whatever the hell happens when I get busy???
How did 20 votes get coughed up so quick :/???


Okay! I'll get started... it might take a month at most. I NEED artwork too... so will anyone give me a hand with that? Or am I just to use the old junk from Elfpack? Also, what functions? Just wikis & messaging?

2013-04-08 [sammie h!]: Online members to

Also ask [Faith.Hope.Love]

2013-04-08 [Schlachter]: Okay. I have started the project... it begins today...

2013-04-09 [sammie h!]: Yaay. :)

2013-04-09 [Faith.Hope.Love]: What art/graphics would be needed? :)

2013-04-09 [sammie h!]: Side Bar, errm a Header and Footer, Buttons. :)

2013-04-09 [sammie h!]: Oh and Can Someone turn the Alarm off please? :)

2013-04-09 [kittykittykitty]: I'll leave the alarm up for now so people know it's coming. Those who have already seen it can hide the alarm message.

2013-04-09 [sammie h!]: How about an alarm saying, we are currently creating an app for android phones, keep watching? :)

2013-04-10 [Schlachter]: [Faith.Hope.Love]: Thanks for the offer. Buttons, glossy control panel things, mostly things you expect in a App I guess... maybe someone would like to give me an idea for a frame? I am starting with functionality first, so no hurry.
Also, if you are worried people will steal your art, don't ever upload it hi-res. Always reduce the quality & put it as GIF or JPEG with 75% quality-compression ratio or more. Or watermark it... or if you feel very generous, submit it under an Open Source license (BSD, MIT, GPL). You will get to maintain full claim to authorship this way.

Others: I have gotten to working on the app quite a lot so you will rarely see me online anymore (maybe once or twice every 2 days... don't be upset, I won't leave!). I will still get to PM's as fast as I can.
I expect it to be done by mid-May. Then brace yourselves for REAL crowds again... actually, I am logging in here & finding it pretty busy! Must be all those high-school kids not studying for summer...

2013-04-10 [Faith.Hope.Love]: [Schlachter]: No problem making buttons or control panel thingies, if I can be given a little more of an idea as to what's needed. It's what I love to do, make and create. But... I know nothing about Apps, and I do not use any type of mobile phone thingy. I would need to know a bit more, like what they would be used for and/or how they would be. If you would like to provide me with a little better idea, perhaps, I can then know if I can make you what you need.

Thanks for the tips! Money is not something I have in abundant supply and if and when I do, I always tend to find someone who needs it more than I. lol

Actually, I'm a little surprised that Hedda hasn't implemented an "on-the-site" chat capability, like Facebook has and a few other sites, like MyScify has and a counter capability for views available on wiki-pages. I know for a fact, artists and photographers especially, like and look for the latter. But just thinking out loud here... :P

2013-04-10 [sammie h!]: Lol, I know, it has been busy just recently, let's hope we can get things going, hmm don't know about the border, how about [Deg]'s as it is nice? :)

2013-04-10 [Deg]: Orrrr run other ideas by me and I can try to get another idea up! :D

2013-04-10 [sammie h!]: How about a star Border? :)

2013-04-10 [Stephen]: @Artsie: (I like the name artsie more, sorry!)

I've been bugging Hedda for months and months about an on-site chat engine, but no progress has been made.

2013-04-11 [Faith.Hope.Love]: Yeah, I like the name Artsie better, too, but I'm leery to use it any more on Hedda's sites. Sorry, it's the nature of the beast. :/

Well, I highly doubt he is incapable. But one would think that he would want to implement things to compete with the other social sites. There's an ever growing distaste by users of Facebook because of its ridiculous policies. People are getting banned and punished for such things as: liking too much, too many times, too often; sharing too much, too many times, too often; for requesting and/or accepting friendships; comments flagged as spam for something as simply said as congratulating someone for something; and other stuff. It seems ridiculous to punish and humuiliate users for "using the social features" on a "social site". ..And there's no user support to speak of either.

..And Google's plus and its other services aren't anything to brag about either. It seems Google can't make anything user friendly at all. It's got to be more complicated to use than it needs to be, but then, Google can't be bothered to listen or help its users either.

..And I still think that the greatest asset to Hedda's sites is the wiki-page. If he incorporated just a few of what the other social sites offer and then with the wiki-page feature, I do honestly think, many could be drawn to them. ..And socialising is an important part because people are social as a rule by nature.

If there's anyone that could make a website that would give Facebook a run for its money, it would be Hedda. He's a hell of lot more brilliant than most realise. ..And I still believe this and will say this in spite of everything.

2013-04-11 [sammie h!]: +1

2013-04-11 [Schlachter]: [Faith.Hope.Love]: He is lazy as hell & is not very good at writing good code. He cannot even maintain Elfpack I think even if he wanted to; it is that big of a mess. He got some concepts right, but overall, I am inheriting this mess. I am contemplating rewriting Elfpack, but we will talk about it after the App gets made & if-&-only-if there are enough users behind me to do it.
The wiki concept is strictly outstanding... some of the ideas here are just really worth thinking about... but in general, they are very poorly implemented. Not to mention the amount of loopholes in the privilege system...
I could write a chat system for Elfpack... in fact, in the App I could implement that easily. As for a graphical frame... I need some ideas. We have a phone screen... & just about any possibility under the sun:
|  Elfpack App  |
|         |
| Wiki: Redesig... |
|         |
| Latest comments |
| - [Schlachter]  |
|  why so much  |
|  work???    |
| - ...      |
|         |
We need some interface engineers... or some artists with . [Deg] seems busy, [Stephen] is lazy... who else?
So it is just you & [sammie h!] the way I see it...
Edit: Verdammt!!! Even the ascii art doesn't get pre-formatted... how annoying.

2013-04-11 [sammie h!]: we want a tidy app, not one that has to many options, if you go on the mobile app of my website, the link:, you will see, though it's shit, how roughly it should be. :)

2013-04-11 [Schlachter]: Well, we can take the design idea & use it... I just find ergonomically it probably is not going to make a lot of people happy...
You have to also remember, this will be an App, not a web page. Who here wishes to be consulted about the ease of using an App? If I can't do two things, it is art & ergonomics... so some department should be coughed up to give me some basic structure for the App or I swear you will all be crying when you see it hahahaha.

2013-04-12 [Stephen]: Let's not get into a debate about [Hedda]'s skills, please. :3

Artsie: I'd love to have you as a graphics artist around here. Your art is purdy. <3

Zach: If you've used the Facebook app for the phone -- which you haven't because you don't use Facebook, I'd ideally want something similar to that. xD

2013-04-12 [sammie h!]: Artsie is a great artist, and we could really do with her help. :)

2013-04-22 [Deg]: Cooooooooool.

2013-04-29 [Schlachter]: She seems to have ran away at the mention of work...

2013-04-29 [Stephen]: Hm.
I just had to mail in my phone, so I can't easily get you screenshots of the app now. ):

Maybe someone else can? :D
*nudges everyone else*

2013-04-29 [Schlachter]: It's okay... it is not imminent in the development. But next week it will be...

2013-04-29 [sammie h!]: Why don't you send them. In the forum. :)

2013-04-29 [Schlachter]: Send what?

2013-04-29 [Faith.Hope.Love]: I'm watching this page. Never allowed work to scare me off yet! ;) I just don't have any kind of idea of what would be wanted of me to do. :P

2013-04-29 [sammie h!]: Just be creative. :)

2013-04-29 [Stephen]: Well, I don't think telling her to make random artwork and hope for the best without any direction on anything at all that she's going to be doing with it, is really the best way to go about things. x3

2013-04-29 [Schlachter]: That's a good point...
[Faith.Hope.Love] are you familiar with the process of how an Android application (or any application for that matter) is put together art-wise? I will try to explain what I mean in more legible terms (I'm usually very bad at that)...
So ideally, an application has 3 major parts:
1) The Engine (or application logic)
2) The Graphics/Artwork
3) Data & Storage (anything from networking to local databases)
1 & 3 I am taking care of... & to some extent 2, but I need to connect clicks with something... that something is usually an image or graphics of a sort. Basically, a frame, buttons, backgrounds, doodads, drop-down menu's... things like that are what is needed in the app. Logos as well... hopefully this makes a little more sense?

2013-04-29 [sammie h!]: So why can't we use the ones we have now? :)

2013-04-29 [Schlachter]: Well that would defeat the purpose now wouldn't it...? No?
Why would I make an app that acts exactly like the website when the whole idea of the app is to ease the use of the website?
Are we trying to improve Elfpack or just duplicate it into an app?
Because it is a lot of work to just make a minimized version of the site whose only purpose spares us the click on a bookmark in a web browser...

2013-04-29 [sammie h!]: True.

2013-04-29 [Stephen]: I would think an app, should pretty much remove all the junk.

Something that shows messages in a quick way.

View wiki pages, and wiki changes.

View profiles, button to send message right next to the username. No scrolling to bottom needed.

Maybe hide the badge slot and treasury, too. Those aren't super vital, overall.

2013-04-29 [sammie h!]: Very true, but I think [Schlachter] will make it look good. :)

2013-04-29 [Faith.Hope.Love]: No, [Schlachter], I don't. I use a computer to access the Internet and do everything online from it. This is why I feel so clueless about what is needed in the line of artistically.

I have a little idea in my mind as far as buttons and dropdowns, and the rest, but sizes, shapes of, colour schemes? Is there any link or links where I could go to get an idea?

2013-04-29 [Stephen]: I don't like the new color of the comment box.

I think it has a slight pinkish tint, which doesn't really look good. If you wanna darken it, go for a darker tan color. (:

2013-04-29 [kittykittykitty]: You could try something like BlueStacks ( ) to fiddle with some apps and get a feel for what visual components you need.

Is doodad a technical term? xD

2013-04-29 [Faith.Hope.Love]: Thanks Sarah Kitty. I'll take a look at it. :)


2013-04-29 [sammie h!]: Ok, I will try that now. :)

2013-05-02 [Schlachter]: Actually, [kittykittykitty] answered both your questions -- the one from the other wiki about using the apps on your computer AND about getting an idea of what type of graphics are needed in an app. Anything visual you see in the app we have to make from scratch. Think of it like your web browser:
the pages are made by their respective authors... but the frame of the browser, buttons, graphics... all that... that has to be made by the browser company. So by us in other words. But I am not building a browser in that sense, so we also have some dynamic elements to make as well...
Also, do you want to preserve commercial interests for your art, or are you okay with BSD style licensing?

Thanks a bunch [kittykittykitty]!

I don't know if doodad is a technical term XD are you not the native-English speaker here XD? I should be asking you that question XD!

2013-05-03 [Faith.Hope.Love]: Okay, thanks Sarah and Schlachter. Stephen sent me a few images, too. I would rather not download and place something on my computer that I would not use, and therefore, do not need.

The app you're developing is specifically geared for Elfpack, correct? So, what would be incorporated would be the Elfpack features, I'm thinking, and so, the buttons, doodads, dropdowns, would be made to work for these features, right?

As far as any graphics or design, I am making them specifically for use on Elfpack, Elfpack's app, period. This way, whatever your stipulations are in regards to the use of the app you're developing, the rights of the graphics and design should match...

...except for the "Kang" by Mom. It's not something I've decided, but I thought it might be a nice "Elfpack" touch if her Kang was added. Any thoughts about this, anyone?

I'm viewing this anyway, as a learning experience, sorta', since I've never done this before and kinda' like trying to create with a blindfold on in a way. :)

2013-05-03 [Faith.Hope.Love]: What are the "total" area measurements where everything has to fit into?

2013-05-04 [Stephen]: I like the Kang. (:

2013-05-08 [Schlachter]: Okay, thanks Sarah and Schlachter. Stephen sent me a few images, too. I would rather not download and place something on my computer that I would not use, and therefore, do not need.
Good idea.

The app you're developing is specifically geared for Elfpack, correct?

So, what would be incorporated would be the Elfpack features, I'm thinking, and so, the buttons, doodads, dropdowns, would be made to work for these features, right?
Exactly as well. Whatever you want to see as a tool in that app will need graphics. I'll worry about giving the art life...

As far as any graphics or design, I am making them specifically for use on Elfpack, Elfpack's app, period. This way, whatever your stipulations are in regards to the use of the app you're developing, the rights of the graphics and design should match...
It is going to be ENTIRELY Open Source. Meaning anyone can take the code I wrote later on and butcher it all they want as long as they recognize my original authorship (honestly, I don't really even care if they recognize it or not... unless it is [Hedda] XD). As for the artwork, you will maintain authorship... but as this is Open Source... you will have to create a restricting license if you don't like those terms. Or I will have to make the app closed-source, but that will be counter-productive because I don't have mountains of time to maintain it & I would like others to be able to either help out or take over at some point in time... there is a LOT more that needs getting done here. With FB going downhill and losing users by the day, I think the Elfpack philosophy might get it's chance to shine.

...except for the "Kang" by Mom. It's not something I've decided, but I thought it might be a nice "Elfpack" touch if her Kang was added. Any thoughts about this, anyone?
A "Kang"? What is it?

I'm viewing this anyway, as a learning experience, sorta', since I've never done this before and kinda' like trying to create with a blindfold on in a way. :)
:) Sure! Don't forget to put it on your CV too :) you can't go wrong :)

What are the "total" area measurements where everything has to fit into?
Because it is Android, there are no "exact" measurements like with the iPhone...
How familiar are you with scalable graphics? If you aren't, then no worries, it is but a minor thing. The graphics standards for the general Android phones are (width x height in pixels):
QVGA (240 x 320) SD
WQVGA (240 x 400) SD
FWQVGA (240 x 432) SD
HVGA (320 x 480) MD
WVGA800 (480 x 800) HD
WVGA854 (480 x 854) HD
HD: High Definition > 480p
MD: Medium Definition 360p-480p
SD: Standard Definition < 240p
To make your life easier, just work with 480 x 800 & I will scale your graphics for you after. Just remember not to down sample any images because most phones will stretch your graphics or re-sample them from the standards above (yes, most phones have by FAR bigger screens than that).
If you are daring & wish to try to do this yourself, then you should create either scalable templates & compile them for each graphics mode or you can just work with each graphics mode by hand & optimize (but this will take MUCH longer).

Graphics are starting to become needed now... I am completing the app.

2013-05-10 [kittykittykitty]: <img:kang.gif> <-- Kang?

2013-05-20 [Schlachter]: Right...

Any luck with graphics? I'm at a standpoint here with the app... it's practically done... just missing graphics :(

2013-06-08 [DeeJay™]: sorry guys and gals, i'm a bit late to the party!
are you still taking suggestions? x

2013-06-08 [kittykittykitty]: Yes! Fire away :)

2013-06-08 [DeeJay™]: hm.. i dont really know how to phrase the suggestions correctly, or if these would be changes you guys can actually make, but... there's too many buttons! looking at the top of my profile page there's over 60 buttons to press.. do we really need that many?!

also, things on here are complicated. unnecessarily so. for example, i uploaded a picture before. i'd like to think i'm competent with computers, but there were about 10 different boxes to click, all of them totally confusing, and with text boxes here there and everywhere. all i wanted to do was upload a picture! surely it should just be 'click 'upload picture' button > find picture > click 'upload' button'?

also, i've not been here in a while, so i have no idea where everyone's at. would it be possible to have an automated section somewhere on mainstuff telling me and everyone else which public wikis people have recently commented on? similar to wiki alerts, but for wikis you're not watching?

also, accomplishments. it's always nice to have something to aim for. here, there's only council places, and not everyone wants or is able to obtain them. wouldnt it be possible, if my statistics are already being tracked in my member stats section, to hand out awards for being a member for a year, 5 years, 10 years, etc. or sending so many messages - 100, 1000, 50,000, or receiving them, or having 100 friends, or whatever. i'm sure you guys could think of loads to add on - 'active member', 'answered 1000 polls', 'official participant' for joining in with 10 EP contests, 'wiki contributor' for someone who has created a wiki, etc, etc, etc. it would also make good use of the 'Treasury Inventory' section, having all those shiny awards alongside our giffie pets and tog cards.

also, again, not sure if you'd be able to do this, but a section on wikis you've recently commented on would be great. i know, they're all listed somewhere, but who really remembers the names of them?

two more things then i'm done, promise!

the, uhh.. the gold boxes and stuff. i dont like them. they really cheapen the look of EP. i feel it also distracts from the content, and would prefer the previous ones. i cant even remember what colour they were, but they matched, and didnt stick out like a sore thumb. it looked better. more professional. that one might be personal taste, though...

aaand finallyyyy... verification! no-one likes speaking to a fake profile. why not have the second picture on everyone's profile a 'verification' picture, with members taking a picture with their user number. kinda like have done - get people uploading a 'salute' for some verification. or hey, you could make that another badge in the 'treasury' section!

but yeah.. just a few ideas, none of them are complete, all need work. quite literally. but people are getting bored of facebook now, spamming everyone all the time with pointless shit... people want somewhere new to go, and EP could be it!

2013-06-09 [0-Aki]: I really like [DeeJay™]'s comment and agree with her/him. Though I know how to use Elfpack and have been on EP and ET for years, things are way more complicated than they should be on here. Also the entire website looks like a mess, there's so much just crammed into mainstreet and over on the right hand side. It doesn't look organized at all even when it is.

2013-06-09 [DeeJay™]: oh man, i've just noticed i've started every section with the word 'also'.. note to self: proof read.

2013-06-09 [Deg]: I actually really like the suggestions. It is rather complicated...a lot of things could be condensed, I suppose. A lot of what I know about EP is because I've accidentally stumbled onto the stuff that interested me, not because it was very easy to access.

Color scheme stuff needs updated, I blame myself for that. I started giving advice, never finished it, then disappeared for a long while. Damn real life, school got in the way, among other things. It needs to be changed, big time.

2013-06-09 [kittykittykitty]: Sadly a lot of those suggestions involve the site coding which we are not able to change at the moment :/ I agree with them, though, and they are noted (we will bring them up to the relevant people if/when there's an opportunity to implement those sort of things). I really like the idea of a wiki feed sort of thing for recent activity. The closest we have is the 'Latest public wiki-pages' on mainstuff, but that shows only newly-tagged wikis. Most wikipages don't get tagged.

Accomplishments/achievements is really something that needs to be automated. We *could* do it by editing treasuries manually and such, but that isn't viable long-term so that comes under the 'stuff we can't do atm' as well.

You can change the colours of the gold boxes. Actually we've been working on that, but currently the way to change the colours of the site is with custom CSS for yourself. See Install Dynamic Elfpack Stylesheet. You can use the 'public' one _.css (which is still being tweaked and is open to suggestions). You can also use mine if you prefer grey: _kitty.css (it's not public and only semi-open for suggestions :P). If you don't like either you can go crazy and make your own custom css which, with some basic css knowledge, is an easy thing to do (interested, Matt?). I would love for people to have a few more choices, since a lot of the old custom stylesheets from years ago (EG Stylesheets) are not working so well.

Picture verification... well it sounds like a personal wiki project to be honest. Wasn't there something like that on fake? We won't enforce verification of profile pictures in any official capacity but we can always help to advertise a good quality wiki; Elfpack Recommended Page and such.

2013-06-10 [DeeJay™]: glad you all seem to like some/all of the suggestions :]

i do appreciate that quite a few of them require coding, but if they were the end goal we'd have something to work towards in the style and look of wiki pages, forums, etc. something clean, crisp, clear. something that doesnt overwhelm everyone with big gold buttons dancing all over the show, no-one with a clue what they do. just something that's easily readable, easily search-able, easily navigated to or through. it seems to me that even the council members have put their own stamp on the wiki pages that they've edited/looked after/whatevs. official pages especially should be set out perfectly, all uniform, all simple. and if people want to edit stuff, like their own wikis, or like their own 'dynamic elfpack stylesheet', then great! they can! but not everyone wants to, so not everyone needs the button in their face 24/7.
and i'm sure i could do a dynamic stylesheet, but 'aint nobody got time for dat'

the picture verification thing.. i really think that could help. there was something like it on Fake, but they're totally barking up the wrong tree there - Fake has it's name from Fakery... but on EP, why not? i'm not saying it should be a blanket rule for everyone - you MUST have a verification picture or you cant join in - but something that could just be a simple 'verified member' badge in their inventory. it's not imposing, it's not restricting, and it gives members some form of comfort that they're talking to real people.

or, how about... if someone (probably me) set up that 'verification' wiki, would it be possible for you guys with the privs to show the verified pictures in people's treasury inventories? a tiny version, obviously. but with a click-through to an uneditable wiki page with the full picture on it? maybe a little badge, too? lol.
it would also require all you crew members to get verification badges yourselves and lead by example :p but, why not?! :D

2013-06-12 [kittykittykitty]: Well yes... my apparently failed point was that if you specifically don't like gold buttons you can have different coloured buttons by changing your stylesheet, which takes about 5 sec. But if it's the amount of buttons you don't like, then we can't change that because we don't have access to the site coding at the moment. But it is something I want to fix when possible -- high privs have so many damn buttons :P

The official pages are supposed to be uniform, and we've been switching over to a new template, but since there are so many official pages it's impossible to all be done by one person. If you have some specific suggestions/problems on a particular official wiki, fire away in the comments or my inbox and I'll look to fixing it.

I really don't see why such importance needs to be given to a verification picture. Are we really assuming by default that everyone is lying about themselves to such a degree, and should we assume that one picture will somehow protect us from those liars? Because I think if someone were to go to great lengths to lie about who and what they are, then photoshopping their member number into a picture they found won't be such a stretch. What about those with legitimate reasons for not wanting to show their picture to the world? Maybe they are concerned about privacy, maybe they have overprotective parents/family who don't want them posting pictures online, maybe they only want to show their picture to people they like, maybe religious reasons, or maybe they look like the back of a truck and don't want harmful comments. Should we really treat these people with suspicion by default because they don't want to verify themselves? Do you want people to jump through hoops just to have a conversation with you? And then, why would talking to a fake person be so bad? Their persona may be much more interesting than the real thing.

I'm not speaking for the whole council, but personally I am strongly opposed to any kind of official stamp on the idea.

2013-06-13 [Deg]: I don't really have an opinion one way or the other about the picture verification. I'm one of those people that good pictures that I'm willing to post for the world are pretty few and far between. If it were mandatory, it may or may not stop me from joining the site. However, if it wasn't required but simply an option, I don't really see what's wrong with having an incentive for people to do so. Like [DeeJay™] suggested a few comments ago (the first time, in other words), it seemed more like it was just a way to gain an accomplishment/incentive-driven, not actually mandatory.

2013-06-13 [Deg]: Although, to be fair, [kittykittykitty] does have a totally legit point about the verification pictures (in any case, mandatory or optional)--it's not hard to fake, anyways. Besides, I'll go ahead and say it: I've had fake profiles. I make them for my OC's, sometimes. Not necessarily here, but on other sites. People don't mind talking to them. What's the difference? I mean, I wouldn't do it for a love connection type site, but other than that...a conversation is a conversation.

2013-06-13 [DeeJay™]: sarah - i do appreciate your points on verification, but i'm not saying it's mandatory or restrictive in any way. nor am i saying everyone's a liar, or that everyone will WANT a verification option. neither am i saying it's totally fool-proof, and doesnt lack holes in the idea. all i'm saying is it's an idea that could help get the site back up and running - let's face it (no pun intended), people are more likely to talk to others with pictures in their profile. and if people are talking, that can directly transfer throughout the site; "hits", participation, amount of time people spend here. it would also give another angle for people to WANT to sign up - "oh look, they even have verification pictures on here, cool!". i do agree that 'a conversation is a conversation', but for me personally, i simply prefer talking to real people.
again, like i've said, it wouldnt be mandatory, it wouldnt be restrictive in any way, it would just - in my opinion - be another string to elfpack's bow. yes, it may be slightly divisive, some people might not be happy with it, but i think it's ultimately a good option to have.

2013-06-13 [Deg]: Don't really wanna beat a dead horse here, but how is a non-mandatory picture verification different from what we have now? I mean, you keep saying it's not mandatory, but a really good option to have.
How would it be enforced, in other words, to make all those positive changes (more hits, participation) actually happen? Some profiles, the people who decide to play along (don't really know how it's gonna be divisive if it's simply an option and not mandatory), simply have a badge or something saying they've been verified? Cool idea, but I'm just not sure an optional verification is gonna be that much different from what we have now (either people have a pic or not). You know?

2013-06-13 [DeeJay™]: well, the idea i had was to have a 'salute' in the treasury inventory, showing the person and their user number (not their name, as those can change. member numbers dont change, as far as i'm aware?), stating they've been 'verified', with a link to the verification wiki stating what it is, and showing other members who have been 'verified'. if you then want to extend that, you could have the 'search' options to 'only include verified members' (with a bit of coding again, sorry!). but yeah, if it's in the treasury inventory, once a picture has been verified it cant be changed by members, or they cant then simply get a 'verified' badge and change all their pictures to someone else or whatever. it's there, that's a picture of them, with their member number.
for me personally, as i dont like talking to fake profiles - something i've been let down with a number of times previously, and cant help feel i've been lied to once it's discovered - it would make me WANT to talk more to people who i KNOW are themselves. as it is now, i probably look at 20 profiles a day, and i think maybe 15 of them are fake, or show pictures which are not really them. it's even worse on fake, being about 19/20. the 'verified' tag would make me more trusting, more open. and if i'm browsing elfpack in that state, i'd be more likely to participate in and around the place - competitions, wikis, polls, all of the above and more. and once the site is more active because of that, it's more likely to look like a thriving community that people want to be a part of. 'speculate to accumulate' and all that.

the reason that'd be different to what we have now is it'd be official - there's no getting away from having a picture of you & your member number in your profile. currently, you could just google some pictures and upload them instead - something i'm sure many people have, and will, do. one person i know was even friends with someone on facebook and stole all their pictures to use as their own. there was, literally, no way of knowing they werent 'real' until eventually it came out. 'verification' would have shown me they werent that person, or lack thereof would have placed a slight doubt waayyy before it came to light.

2013-06-18 [Stephen]: Just as a heads up for everyone.

I am personally speaking with [Hedda] about changing the actual HTML coding and design of the site. I can't promise massive changes or every whim being acted upon, but he and I are discussing the need of new graphics and layouts on Elfpack.

Let's hope for the best outcome. (:

2013-06-18 [Deg]: Fingers crossed!

2013-06-20 [sammie h!]: Yaay, on another note, how about where you can see what members are watching your wikis x

2013-06-23 [kittykittykitty]: [sammie h!] It would be another Hedda job, and a questionable one regarding privacy. I don't like the idea; anything that encourages people not to watch wikis is not a good thing. I'd probably think twice before hitting the watch button if anyone could see that I was watching. Don't tell me that sounds weird? I think I earned my Stalkers badge, damnit xD

[DeeJay™] so you are saying that anyone who isn't verified you would treat with suspicion. Imo that's an environment inconducive to inclusivity, the opposite of how you claim it would be, because those with legitimate reasons for not wanting their picture here wouldn't even get a look-in from you (and from the rest of the community, if the system were to catch on and become an expectation of the average EP member). I would refuse on principle -- I hate feeling forced to go to greater lengths to make someone trust me... because THAT action raises suspicions for me in others. I would never join a site where a verification picture was enforced, and I am quite sure other potential members would be deterred by it too (if they make it past the look of the site and the application system in the first place xD). There's no reason you can't start doing that 'unofficially' and requiring the picture for people you message long-term. I doubt anyone will think you're weird for requesting it. But I don't see why you have to apply the same standard to everyone: some people care about it, some people just don't. I am really failing to see the benefits of this system.

2013-06-23 [DeeJay™]: no, i'm saying i treat EVERYONE with a level of suspicion when i talk to them. some more so, some less. that doesnt mean i dont talk to other members with interesting profiles regardless, but when they start telling me seemingly tall tales of the things they have/havent done, i'm even more likely to stop talking to them and never speak to them again. if they had a 'verified' picture, i'd be more likely to ask them further on the subject, and others.
i'm also not saying it should be 'enforced'; although it was nice to know you were talking to real people on , i do appreciate that having a mandatory verification process WILL turn people off from signing up. although, saying that, it may also get more people who are interested in contributing to the community to sign up - which wouldnt be a bad thing - but i could show no concrete evidence of that.
i would also like to state that i actually do not believe there IS a reason for people not to have a picture of themselves in their house - everyone has a camera in their pocket, in the form of a camera phone. pretty-much all phones have an in-built camera. mine's 10 years old and does. if they dont have a phone, i'm sure one of their friends do, or a family member, or SOMEONE.. even most laptops come with a built-in webcam now. there is simply no reason for people to say 'i cant' in regards to being able to take a picture to upload. i know you mentioned somewhere that people 'arent allowed' to upload a picture before; well, why? should they be here if they're 'not allowed'? and if people are worried about being 'bullied' about how they look, we should be more inclined to ban the bullies than make people scared to upload pictures of themselves.
all i'm saying is i believe it could help to get the community talking more. and if i feel like ^ this, then i'm sure other people do too. i'd also think that having a 'verified' picture, unofficially, in the treasury inventory would be a simple, easy way to prevent corruption of the system - for people to show a verified picture, get the badge/name on the wiki/their house/whatever, then change to someone else's photos. without the possibility of having the verified picture shown in the treasury inventory, free from tampering with, there'd be very little point in attempting to have the system in place for those who'd want to join in and speak to like-minded members.
if i was able to, i would be very willing to conduct all aspects of the process - the wiki/s, the verifications themselves and keeping people's treasury inventories up-to-date. currently, i am only able to do two out of the three, although that could easily be resolved with an active council member willing to do the final bit - place the verified pictures in people's treasury inventory. i'd just need a go-ahead in regards to someone willing to do that.

2014-01-22 [Faith.Hope.Love]: Hmm.... gee, what happened with [Schlachter]? So, was all the talk about making an application for mobile phones, just talk? It does seem rather odd that he would just disappear. :/

2014-01-23 [sammie h!]: I know, I'm kind of worried about him, it's really weard.

2014-01-27 [0-Aki]: So, though this doesn't /completely/ apply to ElfPack, I stumbled upon this today and EP is ALL I had in mind. It's not to insult the HTML here, or the way we like things. But just read it and put some of it to thought. Just throwing out suggestions at this point.

2014-01-27 [sammie h!]: I agree, wix is Very good x

2014-01-31 [Deg]: I think you're onto something. That's a great blog, great suggestions...definitely gonna put some thought into them and see what happens.

2014-02-17 [Stephen]: It's been quite a while and [Schlachter] seems to have vanished. He said he was making progress on the application, as well. Very strange. Sadly, we don't have any of his files and I don't know if we have anyone who could continue his work even if we did have access.

I reallly want Mainstreet to get a huge overhaul. Slow progress.

2014-02-24 [Deg]: Wow, that kind Poop! Just when ya think you're getting somewhere! Although I've been no help. I log into EP a few times a day at least, but no time to really do anything. I am...THE SILENT LURKER.

Well, sometimes silent. Totally on board and hopeful about a Mainstreet overhaul. Sounds like fun. Looks like it's already starting. Slow progress, maybe, but progress is...progress.

2014-03-23 [Stephen]: I need suggestions on what to talk to Hedda about/suggest to him. He's (mostly) implementing what I ask (although they don't seem to be doing much..). I was thinking of seeing if he'd let me have direct access to the main CSS of Elfpack and we could edit it together as a group-effort that way, but I'm not sure how well that would work. <img:mood12-gif.gif>

2014-03-24 [Deg]: <img:brN-gif.gif> Hmm...yeah, not too sure myself. Maybe it would get a little more interaction/things into motion, but...possibly a lot more complicated, too. But I guess anything is worth a chance, at least at this stage. Or is that too wishy-washy?

2014-03-27 [0-Aki]: I think we need to make a priority list on what needs to be done in order. Feel free to add/take away, and/or change the order of this of-the-top of my head list I'm about to vomit out of my mind.
I haven't been on here much, so I'm just throwing out suggestions at this point.
1) We need to de-clutter Elfpack before we attempt anything else, referring back to that webpage I posted a few comments ago, I think cleaning this place out will make our goals a lot clearer.
   b) Fixing the cluttered mess to the right of the page
   c) Organizing wiki's
2) As much as I love Elfpack the way it is, it's falling behind the times. We need a completely new notification system for messages, wiki's invitations etc. I would hope we can get a real-time update on things now, instead of having to refresh the page.
   a) Adding sounds when you get a notification, I have a lot of friends who were thinking about moving their RP's to Facebook because they knew when someone posted. Adding sounds, or even a "bloop" would be a vast improvement
   b) We need to condense on notifications, instead of having "New comments on (insert insane list of Wiki's here) we could have a drop bar or a button to go to a page that shows what has changed instead of it constantly being on your page. I hate to keep referring back to Facebook, but it's for good reason. It's popular for a reason, user friendly and what-not, and they do that and it works just fine.
3) Design of the webpage itself.
   a) CTA's need to be more precise and clear without taking up too much space
   b) Colors, PLEASE lets fix the colors, I changed my Elfpack back from the "new" colors because they hurt my face, but even the traditional colors need to be fixed, the grey background, gold buttons, cornflower blue side links, the sunset thing behind the top bar of cluttered buttons.
   c) Higher resolution pictures (Like the sunset-jpeg mess thing)

I understand that people may have different opinions than mine, and that's perfectly okay, but regardless, we need to make a list so we can set things in motion instead of being like "Well.. this, this and this, oh and also this needs to be changed I guess, oh and maayybbeee..."
If we want any chance at salvaging this webpage we need to make drastic changes, I know people like the old ways, and they're "used to it" and whatever. But the problem is because of our stubborn ways we're holding ourselves back from making this a really good website, and even a lot of those who claimed they loved Elfpack the way it is just don't show up anymore, and guess where they are?
Because even they were done with this website.

2014-03-27 [Stephen]: Adon;
You're very correct. Elfpack does need a massive reorganization. I don't think making a carbon copy Facebook would work, because then there's no reason to use Elfpack over Facebook.

Our big thing is the wiki - that's the unique aspect of Elfpack, and something I believe we should focus on expanding and fine tuning. We can try to present ourselves as something akin to Facebook, but with more personalization and freedoms.

Having appearances changed when it comes to Elfpack might be pretty difficult. I'm going to see if Hedda will enable some extra features for Priv-1; I can change Mainstreet's stylesheet so perhaps that can be enabled cross-site.

2014-03-27 [Faith.Hope.Love]: I agree wholeheartedly that Elfpack needs to be more "up" with the times. As with Elftown, I think finding a way to maintain the feeling of the traditional Elfpack is important, but then consolidate it by using more drop-down menus. This way additional actions a member would like to do, they still can, but not so EVERYTHING has to be prominently displayed. This would drastically reduce clutter.

I think there's a need for more "real time" aspects, and having the ability to chat in real time while on Elfpack would be a definite plus for the site. The ability to tag people has it's pluses and its minuses, but with an opt out feature, people have the choice to being tagged or not. What I particularly like about the ability to tag, is the ability to tag in comments if you want to notify a person about, say a particular topic. Example: Like if I wanted Stephen to see what I'm writing here, I could tag him so he would get notified about it. But like with most things, there's always those who will abuse a feature.

Sounds are a good idea and also the option to turn sounds off would provide people the option as to their preference.

Hashtagging would also be a helpful tool.

More buttons to share things across the web. Pinterest has become a place to share things from the web, for instance, so a "PinIt" button would be good. I would also recommend organising a group of people just for working on promoting this site. These people could keep Twitter updated daily, Facebook daily, post on Pinterest, Stumble, etc. and regularly. Also, create an Elfpack blog and is there an Elfpack Facebook "page"?

I think promotion is very important because without active members here, no matter what is done to make this site become more of a place to be, if there aren't many here, what good is going to be any changes?

Overall, there needs to be more here that people can do. Unless you're a roleplayer, there is little else here going on or to do. If the roleplayers are leaving and going to Facebook or elsewhere, then this will pretty much completely kill this site. There needs to be more reason for people to come here and join and then enough here happening to keep them here. ..And there needs to be a wider audience. Currently, there isn't much here that is "intellectually" stimulating, for example.

Yes, I agree, Stephen, wiki-pages are Hedda's sites' biggest asset and the way Hedda has them set up, makes them so much easier to use than on other sites' wikis, which the number of sites that do are few and far between. It would be nice to be able to create unique environments (backgrounds) as well. 

2014-03-27 [Stephen]: I would LOVE a tag feature. So much.
I get asked questions on pages and it takes me weeks to respond, because pages that aren't high on my priority list I don't look at unless I'm free of other things, which is rare. Then I feel like a jerk for taking two weeks to respond. >_>

We actually DO have a public relations department on Elfpack, which manage our official Facebook and Twitter pages. They're at the aptly named Public Relations page.

I'm under the belief that we need to have something to hold members to Elfpack when they join. Right now, nearly all new applicants quit right after joining. It's confusing and messy and just.. yeah. I think we should clean that up, before we try to bring in new people.

I'm also thinking of asking Hedda to remove the application system. I'd rather ban the occasional clone/unsavory person, than to have the new memberbase be reduced to almost nothing.

I messaged Hedda and tomorrow he and I are supposed to have a conversation about Elfpack. I'm going to request that priv 1 be able to change the sitewide CSS, and probably also see if I can get some other priv-abilities changed or tweaked.

I don't know enough about the CSS to know if we can do much other than change colors/styles/buttons; I'm pretty sure we can't just make things into a drop down, without changing the HTML.
I find it highly unlikely Hedda will allow me access to the base HTML of Elfpack, so I'm going to aim for the CSS right now. =P

2014-03-27 [Stephen]: I also wish that I was either more involved in Elftown or Elftown had a Vice Mayor that I knew (or had one I could get to know..) because it'd be MUCH easier to carry this out if it was coordinated between all the sites - moreso Elftown, since that's really the "parent" site to these. (That and Elftown is pretty... sleepy at the moment.)

2014-03-28 [Faith.Hope.Love]: I too like the tag feature more than I dislike it. :)

Then perhaps, they need to work on promoting Elfpack more? Okay so now I'll likely get bonked on the head. ;) lol

Well, it's never a good idea to try and force people to do something but you can make a good case to influence their thinking, especially if you have something tangible to support it. ;) Or.. you can give them reasons to "want" to stick around. :)

Unfortunately, all of his sites are pretty sleepy atm. :'( I agree. I think it would be better if his sites were better coordinated with each other too. :)

2014-03-28 [Stephen]: This should be a group effort between members - Council and normal, across the site. Really, across all the sites but at the moment I'm not involved in Elftown much so I can't do much in that regard.

I want to hopefully get the ball rolling; EVERYONE agrees that we need a graphic update on all sites. It's messy, ugly, clunky, confusing, cluttered, etc. If I can get Hedda's okay to change some priv-rights, then that'll be a huge first step towards positive change. We won't be able to completely redesign the site, but we'll be able to have much more influence than we do now.

We have people with ideas and thoughts, which is awesome. Hopefully we can start the process of getting them implemented.

I wish I knew a .css wizard, haha. I know some about cascading style sheets, but not too much. I should ask around and see if I can find one..

2014-03-28 [Faith.Hope.Love]: The more involved with their ideas/input the better I think because there's more ideas to ponder and consider for improving.

I use the Elftown default stylesheet because I happen to like it. :P

I've met some wizards. I've made many great connections being on Facebook and to think I originally joined Facebook for the sole purpose to help promote Elftown. :/

2014-03-28 [Stephen]: I try to mostly avoid Facebook. I use it for communication with personal and business, but I don't really "branch" out; I don't join groups or anything. I tend to try to steer clear of too many people, friends, or organizations. Keeps life less cluttered and more easy going. I like easy going. :P

I like Elftown's greens, of course. That shouldn't be a surprise, heh. I want Elfpack changed so badly..

2014-03-28 [Faith.Hope.Love]: Well, to each their own, Stephen. ;) Everyone has their own preferences. There's nothing wrong with this. :) Facebook has both pluses and minuses, not unlike most things. Its silly rules that aren't even stated is a big negative. But it is a great platform for connecting and networking and for awakening The People from their 'bubbles of indifference'. It's not the evils, the wrongs of the world, that's going to do our world in. It's those who stand by and do/say nothing to stop it.

"Greens" <-- ;) Enough said. lol

2014-03-29 [Stephen]: People like their bubbles! You're right though, unless people get together to stop bad things, they'll just get worse. :P

Anyway, we're getting off topic and I don't want to derail this wikipage. ;)

I didn't have a chance to message Hedda earlier. Damn timezones!

2014-03-29 [Faith.Hope.Love]: Yeah, they do and we all need them to have a place, our own space, to be able to escape from the real world for awhile. We just can't let our bubbles make us totally oblivious to what's happening in the world outside of them. ;) No more talk about bubbles! hehe

Well, in Östergötland, Linköping, Sweden, it's 10:34 a.m. right now. I guess that desktop gadget comes in handy on occasion. ;) I never could be quite certain as to why it was so important that "I" KNOW the date, temperature (41°F - 5°C), and time for Linköping, Sweden. O.o

2014-04-05 [0-Aki]: Ahaha, of course I wouldn't want this to be a carbon copy of Facebook, I was just using it as an example because I'm sure most of us know what Facebook is, so it's an easy reference. :P
You can actually promote websites on other sites, (again Facebook) will promote your page to x of people depending on how much money you pay (The more you pay, the more it promotes it), I know Youtube does it too. If we got this site halfway cleaned up, and found a reason people need to be here I would be willing to donate money to some sites to promote Elfpack, but at the moment there's nothing worth promoting.
I think Wiki's are a really big strong-point of Elftown and Elfpack, that could be one of the reasons, but we need more if we want an even half-assed attempt at keeping people.

2014-04-05 [0-Aki]: Also, fuck yeah tags!!

2014-04-05 [Faith.Hope.Love]: There's a lot of dissatisfaction going on with Facebook and apparently Google+ is starting to pull similar crap as Facebook. It would be awesome if Elfpack could offer a more preferred option. *dreaming* But Elfpack would have to be able to offer a lot more than it does now. I know nothing about programming, but I can imagine such would be a LOT of work, time, and effort. But... on the flip side, I think it would be well worth it. If Elfpack were to have a much expanded user base, why couldn't there be advertisers here as well? This would give Hedda revenue which is only fair since he does keep the site on the map and does the programming behind it. I have never had a problem with him having ads, except with Elf12, the children's site, because he does deserve to be able to earn money.

I have an idea to help promote Elfpack but the specifics are not totally organised in my head yet and to type it all out will likely create a giant wall of text that most won't be willing to read. So to generalise it, Facebook is so much about posting stuff with quotes and sayings, etc. on them which usually incorporates photos/images. If we made MANY up and shared them from Elfpack and also added an Elfpack link on them and also created an Elfpack page to also help promote this, we might be able to increase a greater awareness about Elfpack. ..And if we worked also with Elftown's Reference Pictures' Library, we might just be able to also help Elftown.

When I was on Elftown, this is one of the things I had on my to-do list along with lifting things out of some of the photos (removing backgrounds), such as flowers and animals and then putting them on wiki-pages so people could just come and get them to use them in their own works.

But like I said, this is just a basic idea that I have many thoughts about but aren't all organised in my thinking. Maybe others here would have some thoughts too. :P

2014-04-05 [0-Aki]: There actually is an Elfpack page and group on Facebook, though at the moment, most of the members are people already from Elfpack. That's a good idea though, we could do that once this place gets cleaned up, I would avoid promoting the site though until we get this place cleaned up. Like Stephen said, most people quit right after joining. At the moment I think it's because this website is just too confusing, dead, has nothing of value and is overall, an inconvenience to check.

2014-04-05 [Faith.Hope.Love]: What's the Elfpack "page"? I'm familiar with the group although I haven't joined for reasons I won't go into here. There are things that can be worked at behind the scenes so to speak while 'cleaning up' like setting up wiki-pages and organising and creating images to share would take some time. :)

2014-04-06 [0-Aki]: Oh, I guess it's just a group. Huh I could've sworn there was a page. But I guess I'm just nuts. I can create a page though.

2014-04-06 [0-Aki]: Okay, I created a page. xD

2014-07-24 [Stephen]: After months, and months, I've actually spoke with Hedda some (that's part of why I've been half-active lately);

He's willing to do small changes.
He won't remove the application system. So all I can really do there is give more people the ability to accept applications.
I don't think he's going to restyle the entire site.

The wiki is easily the strongest point for all of these sites, but the complication in using them (weird buttons, odd words, odd colors, weird navigation system) is the weakest point.

I have no idea what to do about that.

2014-08-09 [0-Aki]: Removing clutter may be a start?
I don't really know, I've honestly (as much as I hate to say it) have given up on this website almost entirely, I essentially check it for nostalgic reasons these days.
Getting back on Elfpack actually kind of makes me depressed. I don't know why.

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